Ireland Rejects Lisbon Treaty And EU

The voters of Ireland gave a resounding “no” to the Lisbon Treaty and, in so doing, gave a resounding no to efforts of members of the European Union from moving forward in efforts to enhance the power of the organization. By a margin of 53.4% to 46.6% Irish voters, who represent about 1% of total membership in the Union, vetoed what the remaining 99% of European Union members desire. President Sarkozy of France, said he regretted the action but insisted the EU had to move ahead. He indicated there might be a way to proceed without Ireland’s vote and still have the Lisbon Treaty take effect. Chancellor Merkel of Germany expressed her disappointment, but coalition members from the SPD were furious. President Stipe Mesic of Croatia was upset because Ireland had received so much help from the EU to jump start its economy and was not turning on those who had been of assistance.

It is time for the European Union to abandon the idea that one nation can thwart the desires of the remaining members. Perhaps, it is time to move toward a three-fourths rule as is present in the United States.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    Stop telling lies. There is no evidence that 99 percent of EU citizens approved of the Lisbon treaty. Firstly none of the other countries gave their citizens the opportunity to vote on it. and secondly, only 18 of the 27 countries have ratified it, with the possibility of the Czech government kicking it to touch.

    Nicholas Zarkozy and his talk is doing nothing but vidicating the no side that the EU has become an undemocratic entity. The rules of the EU state that once it has been vetoed it is dead. How do you expect anyone to support an organisation that cannot obey its own rules.

    Oh, and be fore you say that we elected our governments so they represent us, consider this. 90 percent of the Irish parliment were advocating a YES vote. the fact that the treaty was rejected proves that our government doesn’t always represent us.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    One more thing, you complain that only 890,000 people voted no to the treaty on thursday. Let me put this to you. The total number of people who voted yes, as well as the members of the 27 national parliments and upper houses, is still outnumbered by the number of people who voted no in ireland.

    You would prefer 2,000 people approving the treaty even though 800,000 people have voted to knock it down?

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    The issue is no federal system can endure if one entity, one nation, can block the will of the other 26.

  • clarec

    The previous version of this treaty has already been rejected by both France and Holland in 2005.

    The will of the other 26 countries cannot be determined as the people were not given a right to exercise a vote on this Treaty.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    The issue is no federal system can endure if one entity, one nation, can block the will of the other 26.

    You obviously don’t know how the EU works. Each country has a veto. and Ireland has used theirs. If an attempt to implement the Lisbon Treaty is made then it would be in breach of EU law.

    Also, they can’t force Ireland to leave as up until the treaty of nice, there is no set rules for leaving the union, and even under lisbon, a country must leave concentually. But then as Ireland hasn’t ratified lisbon, they cannot be asked to leave. Oh lord, that is a whole other legal can of worms.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    One more thing. Who said anyone wanted a Federal Europe. Ireland joined an economic partnership, not a United States of Europe. You can be sure that there would be crowds on the streets of both France, Germany, Holland and many other countries if a Federal EU was on the cards. It will only happen by underhanded means.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    Actually, I do know how the EU works. Who doesn’t know about the dysfunctional EU process of change. I was using the analogy of a “federal”concept which entails a group of entities coming together with shared forms of governance but still retaining their own sovereign powers. You may attempt to defy history but some form of European government is the destiny of Europe. Study the history of how the present EU came about– have you– and you will learn it has been incremental in fostering ties of unity. I believe you need a history lesson.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    Yeah, IU do know how the current EU came about. Some German guy tried to take over europe, killed a load of Jews, and it came down to the British and the Americans with some help of the russians to take him out.

    After that we all became friends, and decided to resolve political differences through co-operation and discussion. What came about was trade community. which started to gain political powers from the member states.

    The only time Europe has ever been united is through dictator ship

    From the Roman Empire to the Third Reich, a united Europe will never come about democratically.

    The EU as it stands is functioning, albeit a bit top heavy, and will continue to do so until the assention of Croatia in 2010.

    This treaty was more than just streamlining though, it was about the enhancement of military power which many neutral countries in the EU will not tolerate.

    And a no to Lisbon is in no way a rejection of the EU. The treaty was pretty much rejected because people felt that someone was trying to hoodwink them.

    Tell me, when the author of what is now the Lisbon treaty says something like this, does it not scar e myou?

    “Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly” … “All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way.”
    - V.Giscard D’Estaing,

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    The United States of America was not formed by any vote of “the people.” It was created by representatives of the people. Ditto for Argentine or Mexico and many others.
    You belong to those who linger in nationalism and parochial attitudes. People like you belong in the dustbin of history because we humans are moving inexorably toward a world society. It may take a hundred years or so, but that is human destiny. The EU is a step forward.

    P.S. When the United States was formed it did not require a unanimous vote. I believe the current EU method of requiring a unanimous vote is dysfunctional.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    Firstly, I am not the one who told lies on this site. You are.. you claimed that 99 percent of people within the EU support the Lisbon Treaty/EU constitution. This is a lie as 99 percent of EU citizens have not been asked about it.

    You have also failed to address the quote from the EU Constitution/Lisbon treaty’s author which states that the document was designed to confuse the ordinary citizen.

    Another lie you have failed to address is that the Irish by their no vote are rejecting the EU. Even barosso himself stated that the no vote on thursday was not an anti-EU vote.

    If there is one think i detest the most it’s a liar.

    Now, as for the federal EU being the destiny of Europe, the fact that a constitution was rejected in France, Holland, and now Ireland, with some doubt coming from the Czech government, it doesn’t look like it is the destiny of Europe.

    Answer me this, who decides this destiny? You? me? Sarkozy? nobody knows their destiny as it is unwritten.

    Now, would you care to address, in points preferrably, the points you continue to avoid.

    1. You lied in that you claim that Ireland rejected the EU, it did not, and any EU head of state will tell you this.

    2. You lied in that you claimed that 99 percent of the EU are in favour of the Lisbon Treaty, even though only 18 of the 27 countries have ratified, and none of these have put the treaty to a referrendum. Show me an opinion poll that says 99 percent of the EU’s people are in favour of the treaty.

    3. Every time someone has united europe it has eventually ended in war. Be it the barbarians v the Romans, to the Allies versus the Axis (Germany Italy 1939-1945)

    By all means, share your viewpoints. I respect that there are federalists in the EU, but stating falsehoods diminishes that viewpoint.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    1. The point I was making is that Ireland prevented the EU from proceeding with necessary changes. In so doing, it rejected the will of the majority.
    2. I am confident when all the other nations of the EU have approved the changes my comment that 99% have agreed to it will stand as being correct. The American people in the 1780s formed their union via elected representatives. Since when is that not an example of democracy?
    3. Unless, my version of history is incorrect, Europe has never been united. Parts of it have been united but no configuration as presently exists has ever previously existed.
    4. I have no idea what you mean by “every time someone has united Europe it has eventually ended in war” and then you cite, “the Allies versus the Axis.” Do you have any knowledge of history or is that a subject no longer taught in Ireland? After Germany was defeated, Europe split between the Soviet Union and western Europe. Unless, I missed something, which “war” followed?
    Sir, if I made a list of your mistakes(lies) I could go on forever.

  • http://www.limerickblogger.org squid

    The point I was making is that Ireland prevented the EU from proceeding with necessary changes. In so doing, it rejected the will of the majority.

    The Constitution / Treaty was rejected by both the French and Dutch in referrenda. The UK would have rejected it also had there been a referrendum, which the labour government promised before it was elected.

    2. Your article claimed that 99 percent of the people of Europe supported the treaty. You are now admitting that this is based on the assumption that the remaining countries will ratify the treaty, and that they have the support of their populations. Your statement is still false and unfounded.

    Your claim that Ireland has rejected the EU is also a lie, see what Barosso said on Friday.

    Again you are coming out with personal attacks, which I have not done to you, which, I guess shows your true intellect. Like it or not, Germany under the nazis was pretty much what you want the EU to be, all those european countries, France, Austria, The netherlands, switzerland, poland, all under one government.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    Anyone who can say “Germany under the Nazis was pretty much what you want the EU to be” is either intellectually ignorant or a rather sick human being. Please read what life was like under the Nazis. I gather Ireland has ceased teaching history.

    As of the moment that I wrote my comment, 99% of the EU had supported changes.

  • Craig

    “either intellectually ignorant or a rather sick human being.”

    That’s rich coming from someone who claims that 99% of the EU supported the Lisbon Treaty when only the people of one member-country was actually “allowed” to vote on it. What fantasy world do you live in, where the ramming through of a treaty designed to increase the power of a bureaucratic elite is somehow democratic? A true liberal-elitist, just like the unelected rulers of the EU.