President Sarkozy Snows On Turkey’s Parade

The French have a tradition in which a nation is invited to devote a six month period in which cultural aspects of their society are presented to the French public, a “country season” as it is commonly termed. The Turkish government in 2006 arranged with France to have 2008 be the year in which a “Turkish season” would display Turkish fashions, literary works, culinary expositions and many other facets of Turkish culture to the people of France. They have now been informed the season will never get going because Turkey has been bumped from the parade. The denial comes on the heels of President Sarkozy’s efforts to block Turkish entry into the European Union. According to a Turkish diplomat, “We think the real reason behind France’s request to postpone the Turkish season is the fact that it just comes ahead of Euro elections” to the European Parliament. Last year, the season featured Armenia, a nation with whom Turkey has poor relations.

It becomes increasingly evident that President Sarkozy is determined to block Turkey’s entry into the European Union. This latest manifestation of hostility was bound to infuriate the Turkish government and people, particularly since Turkey was scheduled to present its culture the year after Armenia had the opportunity. It is a slap in the face that accomplishes little except to widen differences between a Muslim nation which attempts to serve as a bridge between the world and more fundamentalist groups in Arab nations. Sarkozy may feel pleased at his inept attempt at diplomacy, but Europe and the world will suffer.

  • journeyer58

    President Sarkozy, what a guy! Given the fact that the West needs better relations with any Islamic country, he sees the need to put a dagger into the relations of the EU with Turkey.
    How one man can justify the cutting off of a country with such importance, is truly astounding. Just as like Duhhhbya, the whole world seems to revolve around President Sarkozy. What he says is gospel and no one had better disagree with him, or declared a terrorist you will be. Haven’t we in the world had enough of that kind of leadership? Can we, the electorate
    not get it right?
    Yet, I still hope against hope, that one day people of the world will see through the greed, avarice and vile ambition of those who set themselves up as the elite. We need to have people who will disavow their own ambition and sacrifice for the greater good; living no better than the poorest and no worse than the richest.
    Some day, some day!

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    Thank you for your comments

  • )=(

    //a Muslim nation which attempts to serve as a bridge between the world and more fundamentalist groups in Arab nations.//

    what a bridge indeed!

    70% of US traffic to Iraq goes through Turkey — it’s a nice way to support a slow genocide of the Iraq nation by the Turkish governement, isn’t it?

    and let’s not forget Turkey’s friendship with Israel who is being so nice to the Arab Palestinians.

    wonderful bridge!

  • Jacques DUMON

    You call Pdt Sarkozy’s policy for Turkey “INEPT”.
    What is more inept? Saying clearly that Turkey is not welcome in the EU while a huge majority of French (and EU) citizens agree with the President, or endeavouring to fight this opinion through unfair and occult means?
    French people are fed up with Muslim people immigration like other European countrie’s citizens.
    To let Turkey enter the EU would be a disaster: The founding countries role in EU would be mathematically & drastically reduced while Turkey with 100 millions citizen (Turkish + diaspora) would claim to rule EU.
    The life standards and ways of living in Turkey are closer to those of 3rd world that those of EU.
    The democracy in that country never worked and never will work like in all other muslim countries.
    INEPT adjective is more proper to the US policy in that matter: The US promised Turkey would be allowed to enter the EU in award of this country’s support during the cold war, with the secret schedule to reduce the EU growing economic power :
    - 1/ Promises made by the US only engage the US, not EU.
    - 2/ Would the US citizens ever be happy in the case they are being told that the EU promised Mexico to be nextly merged with the US?

    I wish to ask journeyer58 which kind of assets the Turkey would bring to us while entering the EU. There are other means to get friendship with that country than to merge with. Pdt Sarkozy wisely propose a privileged economical status. Wouldn’t that be better than marrying the carp with the rabbit?

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    It is fascinating you consider Turkey close to a third world country. How exactly would you describe Romania and Bulgaria? Turkey has a vibrant economy, and a system of colleges that produce highly educated and skilled students. Turkey is the natural bridge between a basically Christian European world and the Muslim world. It already has excellent relations with Israel– including joint military exercises– and could play an important role in bringing peace to the Middle East. Turkey’s president already brought together the presidents of Israel and Palestine. I have no idea what you mean by claiming Turkey is not a democracy, it has free elections.
    As far as the Iraq war is concerned, there is no evidence Turkey supported the invasion and there is absolutely no evidence of any secret Turkish-US agreement to damage the EU. All fantasy.

  • Jacques DUMON

    Dear Fred,
    Is this fantasy for all the US citizens who are worrying about the current massive legal & illegal immigration through Mexican border?
    Although in my opinion, the Mexican people are culturally closer to the US than are the Turkish people to the EU.
    Should you agree or not, Europe has christian roots that nobody cant get rid of in a flash, like Turkey has muslim roots.
    Integration of Romania and Bulgaria will be completed within 15-20 years like is ongoing that of east Germany because they have similar cultures and moreover they historically were linked to Europe before WWII and communist destructions.
    Turkey and EU have fundamentally different cultures. Attempting to merge these cultures brings disastrous effects like the riots we had in France 2 years ago and recently in the Paris suburbs, not speaking of the problems in Germany and in Londonistan
    To build a bridge between Turkey and Europe, yes of course, but a controlled bridge, not an open door allowing Turkish people to enter the EU without limitation.
    I know a lot of Turkish citizen who are eager to come (even disemployed for a long time) and install in France, but no French people waiting for a job in Turkey.
    And I find very odd that the UK who is one of the best supporters for entering the Turkey in Europe (its usual alignment on the US foreign policy) while in the same time being so reluctant to accept the EU constraints like the Euro and many other.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    You are incorrect. Originally, there was no Christianity in Europe, people were pagans. In fact, originally there were more Jews in Spain than Christians who were late comers. The process of Christianity took centuries. We Americans are a nation of immigrants, each immigrant group was charged with the same problems as Mexicans currently are charged. Actually, there were Spanish people in North America prior to arrival of English and French immigrants. That is besides the point. The 1924 Immigration and Quota Act was aimed at keeping out those dirty, filthy Jews and Italians and East Europeans whom the native Americans claimed had “different cultures and values.” Funny, now the descendants of those with “different cultures and values” are claiming Hispanics just don’t fit. We Americans merged the “different cultures” of east Europeans and Jews and Italians very well. As a human, who happens to live in America, I believe Europe will benefit from opening its doors to Muslim Turkey. This has nothing to do with American foreign policy. I also believe in a free independent Palestinian state because in the long run it benefits Israel. You try using anger at the inept American foreign policy in Iraq to justify your own prejudices and bigotry.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    I would like to post on this blog what I sent you as an email. You claim the US “promised” Turkey entry into the EU if they helped America in the Cold War. You also claim that Muslims are incapable of democracy.
    1. Please furnish evidence of which American president gave such a promise? When was it made? Your source for the information?
    2. Why would America make a promise that was beyond its capability to carry out?
    3, The US has been confronting issues of immigration for 300 years. In 1924, the Immigration and Quota Act was passed to keep out “undesirables” like Jews, Italians, and east Europeans. All the arguments against them are the same you pose about Muslims. I would be glad to furnish evidence of the economic, artistic, musical, literary, and political contributions of the “undesirables” to American culture.
    4. Turkey is as vibrant a democracy as Bulgaria or Romania or Poland. It is not perfect, but with entry into the EU it will become even more democratic.
    5. America continues making mistakes about integration of immigrants, but we are working our way through these mistakes. At present, Muslim immigrants from Pakistan have the highest income level of any group in America. Muslim high school students are winning many major science contests and Muslim businessmen are playing a key role in the Silicon Valley high tech center.
    6. In 1954, while a college student in Paris, I heard the same bigoted expressions from people like you. The object of hate was Prime Minister Pierre Mendes-France who was insulted because he was Jewish. Oh, yes, his crime was ending the disastrous war in Vietnam, and reaching out to Muslims in North
    Africa. I attended a session of the National Assembly where speakers yelled, “A bas avec Le Juif.” We could go into bigotry against Jews in French history such as the Dreyfus Affair or the abominable behavior of the French police during WWII who volunteered Jews to the Nazis without being asked. Perhaps, if the French government worked with Muslim leaders to address issues of poverty and discrimination, there would be fewer riots. Perhaps, you can explain the absence of riots by Muslims in America and their phenomenal economic and education success.

  • Jacques DUMON

    Hmm, your case is serious but not incurable.
    I understand that you are okaying to let the US doors wide open to the Mexico immigration.
    Then, let’s make a deal: We, EU, accept to welcome all these mexicans people under the condition that you accept the Turkishs. OK?
    You cannot give lessons regarding the immigration issue to France who has welcome a huge number of foreign people of all cultures during all her loooong history, certainly muuuch more than the US did. May I remind you that the US history is only two and half centuries old?
    I am living in Marseille a 26 centuries old city of which memory cannot give the exact account of the number of immigration waves it has accepted and digested. For the 20th century only I know there were at least six main waves: Italian, Spanish, Armenian, Lebanese (mainly christian),Vietnamese, black foots (Algeria’s Europeans) and eventually North Africa Arabs. Muslim immigration began 50 years ago and all other immigrants have merged until now except these ones one but only very scarcely. Pls explain me why.
    Believe me, give up your American phantasms and try once the muslim immigration like we are currently experiencing, you will never forget it!
    Possibly in the case you are coming in Paris nextly, don’t have your usual hotel reservation in Montmartre. I will book one for you in a nice hotel of La Courneuve in the suburbs. You will appreciate!
    Anyway, the question of Turkey’s integration or non-integration to Europe is only EU people’s concern. The problem will not be solved in their back.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    I am confused. If you agree with immigration of many groups, what is your objection to the Turks other than they are Muslims? I have no objection to Hispanic immigration. I welcome Mexican immigrants. At present, they are doing work that most Americans refuse to do, and they are among the hardest working people I have encountered in my life. They remind me of my father’s generation of immigrants. Every charge you make against Muslim immigrants was made against my Jewish parents and their generation. At least find something new to say about those who differ from you. I have a collection of over 300 anti-Irish sketches from the 19th century which depict this group as akin to monkeys and regards them as being incapable of absorbing democracy and education. I have a collection of over 200 sketches about the Italians who are always depicted as criminals. Or, how about the anti-Jewish stories of them being into prostitution and crime? For my students, I sometimes juxtapose cartoons from Nazi newspapers with those in America about the Jews. They are exactly alike.
    Your problem, sir, is an ignorance that everything you say about Turkish immigrants was said about groups like Jews and Italians and Hungarians, etc.. How about my collection of 150 sketches about those evil drunken German immigrants?
    I still haven’t heard a response to my question: Why have Muslims in America risen to such high economic and education levels? Why have there been no riots by Muslims in America?
    Let me conclude with a bit of factual data. The Jewish, Italian, east European immigration of the early 1900s resulted in the lower east side of Manhattan being the most densely populated area in the world– surpassing Bombay. People lacked education, worked in low paying jobs, crime was common. Their levels of poverty far surpassed anything in contemporary France and the Jewish-Italian coalition of criminals were more dangerous than any current Muslim criminals. Despite these terrible conditions, the children of immigrants gradually worked their way upward. Schools reached out to the children, social work agencies were active, and immigrants took the dirty jobs of society that native born Americans rejected– just like Mexicans today. Most available evidence is that first generation Mexican immigrant children are proficient in English and by the second generation they begin to move upward in school performance and economic achievement. Welcome the Muslim immigrants and work with them and things will change.

  • Jacques DUMON

    David,
    The difference between France and the US is that we have not collected the best of muslim immigration, what you seem to ignore:
    The candidates for immigration in US are coming with the firm intent to integrate this country and share the same ways of life and values of their citizens. Before coming they know they have only to rely on themselves, on their harsh work. If they fail, there is no unemployer’s cash or health system that will allow them to be fed free of charges for months and even years without finding a job. Moreover, they love your country and its inhabitants and hope to become eventually same as Mr Smith not caring about their origins.
    In France, the leftist politically correct speech finds normal to accept that these people keep the same way of life as in their origin countries and proudly display their hatred for France and French people, and their firm intent to take advantage of the system.
    They know that they can live like nababs with the money that the generous health, family & unemployment system we have in France will supply them, and they don’t make bones to use and abuse it by scandalous frauds.
    I can give you the example of that Imam in Lyon who had 4 wives (polygamy is forbidden by law in France!) and 18 childs. It was calculated that his monthly cash in social helps of all kinds for his wives, his children, himself unemployed (Imam isn’t a job) was about EUR 9000.00 , not speaking about the alms he cashed in his mosque. This poor man was expelled from France not for these reasons, but only for his violent preaches against France and European people !!!!
    A number of his fellows are writing or saying aloud: “Fuck France!” or “We will invade Europe through the wombs of our wives!” and “we will fuck all your wives and your moms” and a lot of such pleasant things.
    I don’t dare to imagine what would happen to people who have such behaviors in the US.

    I wish to repeat you what once said Charles Aznavour, a famous French singer who immigrated from Armenia: WE WANTED TO BECOME FRENCH, THIS WAS OUR UNIQUE AIM, OUR ONLY PRIDE.
    AND WE SUCCEEDED.
    He said this exactly in reaction to the mess we have now in France.
    Don’t try to imagine the current situation in France and EU through the past century’ s US immigration distorting binoculars.
    It is fundamentally different.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    Let me set aside the Muslim immigration to
    America. Hispanics have been migrating to America for over a 100 years. In the 1940s, there were the famous “Zoot Suit Riots” in which over two dozen Hispanic girls were raped by American soldiers on the streets of Los Angeles. In 1943, race riots broke out all over America. We had race riots in the 1960s during which Black Nationalists made the exact same comments you quote from Muslims. You have no idea how Jewish immigrants in the early 1900s were viewed, that’s why laws were passed to prevent further immigration. So, we Americans are quite familiar with hatred toward people whom the majority does not believe will ever integrate. Of the Italian immigrants to America, one-third stayed a few years, and then returned to Italy– certainly an example of non-integration. You are intellectually and emotionally unable to grasp the hatred toward Irish Catholic immigrants in the 19th century and the prevailing feeling they owed primary allegiance to the Pope and would never become real Americans.
    Part of your problem is viewing Muslim immigration to France as an unusual situation. Let me return to Hispanic immigrants– a high percentage of whom maintain close ties with families back in Mexico. The evidence we have is that by the first generation, children have much less allegiance to Mexico and language than parents, but by the 2nd generation they are fluent in English and have few ties to Mexico.
    The reality is that the overwhelming majority of legal or illegal immigrants from Mexico seek employment and work hard. Historically, recently arrived immigrants to America take on the “dirty jobs” of society. As their children become better educated they move up both economically and socially. I suspect France is failing to provide work opportunities and it lacks a comprehensive education program to assist immigrant children. For example, have the French police launched affirmative action programs to bring into the police force large numbers of Muslims? A key point in furthering integration since all immigrants regard the police as representing authority.
    The bottom line is that immigrants need at least two generations to begin showing significant integration within society.
    You quote examples of laziness and abuse. Do you have any concrete evidence to support your allegations? President Reagan in the 1980s used to cite stories like yours to prove people on welfare were cheats. The evidence was the exact opposite when it was studied.
    The immigration material I cite reflects immigration patterns throughout the world. Australia has a similar process of integration of immigrants. Above all, one needs patience to achieve integration. It took Jews and Italians in America over a hundred years before they were fully accepted on an equal basis.

  • Jacques DUMON

    There are a number of examples of laziness and abuses that I can provide. The more significant is that of this Imam that was displayed in the newspapers.
    The more worrying are examples of hatred that you cannot imagine. They are not punished at all while purported racist behaviors of white people are of course severely (and justly) repressed. This is bringing a feeling of exasperation.
    The last riots were even more worrying since policemen were shots by firearms. This was the first time that has happened in a peace time in France.
    We never had such things with non muslim immigrants. My wife who is a teacher says me the most difficult kids she is teaching are arrogant male muslim kids. Their parents threatens her in the case they are not appreciated as they want, with sometimes verbal death threats, and usually vandalized cars and pierced tears.
    And nobody cares about this situation: The policemen are giving up when the kids they arrested in the morning are freed in the afternoon by the judges under fallacious pretexts.
    Who do you think is able to set ablaze thousands of cars in one night? at 80% per cent these are muslim kids & adults. How many are arrested & condemned? Only a handful.
    Believe me I am not a stubborn racist. I have a lot of jews, vietnamese, blacks from west indies & libenese (non muslim arabs) among my friends. Even they who immigrated recently are fed up and sometimes furious against this situation since they have made the effort to accept the French laws and way of life while they are seeing these people rejecting them and us with hatred.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    During my life I have heard similar expressions against Jews, Italians, Irish, Blacks, Asians, etc… I have taught 12,000 students in my life, among them a few angry hating Muslims, but 90% of m y Muslim students were wonderful people. Anyone can cite “stories,” but, I am an historian. I want factual data. What percent of French Muslims work? What percent are on welfare? What percent graduate from secondary schools? What percent are in jail for crimes? In America, about 25% of our prison population is African American although they only constitute 12% of the population. Of those in jail, the majority are for drug offenses. Fewer white skinned people are jailed for drug offenses because of bias and prejudice. One can tell stories about “Italian gangsters” but the reality is 1% of Italian Americans are in jail for a crime. So, give me the data on French Muslims.

  • Jacques DUMON

    This kind of argument explaining that it is the welcoming country which is bearing the full responsibility of the situation is irrelevant because nobody is able to demonstrate why all the previous immigration waves have been peacefully integrated while this one wasn’t.
    We ourselves had a big Italian immigration between the two WW. We never met the same gangs & mafias criminalities that you the US encountered (Al Capone, Chicago etc…). What would you think if I say that it is the US violent society that generated these? That was an explanation that any European sociologists gave. Anyway your government took the right measures to take control over and the Italian people became the best and faitful citizens in the US like they already were in France.

    The politically correct speech (the yours!) that trends to ignore the problem and even to fight the people who are complaining of it is the worse reaction a government may give since it tends to systematically culpabilize the people who suffer the more of the situation while letting it slowly but certainly rotting and degenerate until all control becomes impossible
    The politically correct leftist speech constantly tries to hammer into the heads that those who complain of the non integrated immigration are rich, right minded people, shortly speaking, the bigot “fascists”. What a nonsense!
    In the reality these are poor people who are obliged to share the sames habitats as the new immigrants and have no other way but to withstand silently their daily insults, humiliations and incivilities because they have not money enough to escape.
    They were the traditional electors since tens of years of the left wing parties, but they were not long to change their minds once the right wing politics accepted at last to hear them.
    Hence possibly you are understanding why Sarkozy has succeeded to became president…
    Sorry to say you also that the politically correct has lawfully forbidden until now to attempt any study trying to statistically relate the crime with the ethnical origins of the murderers, thieves and rapers under the pretext it would “increase the tensions in the society”.
    But I don’t want to generalize and diabolicize all the muslim people. There are a huge number of them who only wish to live in peace and share our values but are prevented to by an extremist and sometimes terrorist minority. Often they had to suffer the same as the French natives while their cars were burnt in the riots.
    My opinion is that the muslim countries had met long ago the same problems that we are currently meeting in France with their own people. I was in Algeria last year for my business and an army’s colonel I knew told me that the only way the muslim societies are using in these cases is a violent police or even army repression. He said that the muslim hooligans cannot keep quiet otherwise (!!).
    I am tempted to share this opinion: Reacting with charitable feelings and pedagogy is a non yielding behavior they can’t understand.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    1. I never accused you or anyone of being a “fascist.”
    2. My historical specialty is the history of crime. I have also written about issues of immigration. Most left wing people call me a bigot so I find it amusing you call me “politically correct.”
    3. I have no idea what you mean by the American government took some sort of “control over” which resulted in Italian Americans becoming OK. The United States federal government does not control education, that is a state responsibility.
    4. The current Russian Jewish Mafia originated in Russia. We already are seeing signs that children of Russian Jewish Mafia figures are going to college and ignoring crime. We term this acculturation– that is NOT a politically correct expression. It is a sociological one which originates decades before the expression “politically correct” was ever heard.
    5. I ask for hard data and you accuse me of being politically correct!
    6. I consider myself to be tough minded and the opposite of politically correct– I continually argue with such people.
    7. My hunch(I have not researched it) is that about 90% of French Muslims are not into any sort of violence and simply want their children to get an education and advance in the world.
    8. You continually cite the 5%(OK, 9%) of youth who are into violence and ignore the 90% who are not. THAT IS MY POINT.
    9. One-third of African American males between the ages of 17-26 are either dead, in jail or on probation. No such figures for black females of that age bracket. Examine the figure, that means about 70% are doing OK. If you go into African Americans in their thirties or forties the figure is no longer one third, it is closer to about 8%. By the way, the same pattern exists for most youth of white European backgrounds, although the figure is not at the one-third level, probably closer to about 10%.
    10. I ask for HARD DATA and you term me POLITICALLY CORRECT. I believe someone who throws around charges without any evidence is closer to being in the politically correct camp than myself.
    11. To conclude,
    a. It took over a 100 years before Irish immigrants were accepted into American society. For most of that time they were called all the names you call Muslims.
    b. It took Jews and Italians about 100 years to gain acceptance.
    c. My point is not enough time has gone by before you can reach conclusions about the success or failure of France’s efforts at integration. Heck, you haven’t even integrated people from some of your provinces. And, look at Belgium, torn to pieces by ethnic conflict.

  • Jacques DUMON

    I call you politically correct bcs your opinion to let Turkey enter the EU is the “political correctness in EU”.
    The opponents to easing muslim immigration are called fascists and racists in EU .
    I meant that the Italian maffias in US were fought like they deserved through a violent and harsh repression by the police. Death penalties and long time jails were sentenced.
    Instead France policy until now was to slowly give up the town suburbs that police lost control over to the muslim maffias, those places thus becoming non law places or worse charia places.
    The official speech was: don’t say, don’t speak, there is no problem. Moderation in the media comments were ordered.
    I already told you that certainly, there is only a low percentage of criminal, violent or uncivil people among the immigration, but since you are aware that any statistical study is forbidden by the law on that matter, nobody can give an exact number thus feeding the most contrary comments in the opinion that wonders if the govt tries to hide a situation she is assessing as catastrophic. And catastrophic it is: The riots in nov 2005 and one month ago clearly demonstrate this.
    I repeat that you don’t want to hear: We never met such problems in the past, even with the Italians (instead of yourselves). To say that France has not yet integrated people of province is a joke same as the US with the indian natives in their reserves: That’s anecdotical & folkloric.
    In conclusion: To let enter freely the Turkey in the EU would be shocking in the people’s minds. They would consider this like a war declaration triggering a violent and irreversible reaction against the EU govt in the opinion if it was forcefully imposed.
    The Mediterranean union that Pdt Sarkozy wants to offer to North Africa countries is scheduled to include the Turkey and would give her a privileged status in front of the EU. Certainly this would be a wiser solution.

  • http://www.theimpudentobserver.com Fred Stopsky

    1. few, if any, Mafia leaders have ever been executed and few actually wound up in jail. The original group you term “Mafia” was an Italian-Jewish coalition. Studies indicate not a single child of a prominent Jewish criminal ever go into crime.
    2. My point is simple, most French Muslims are not violent and seek good jobs and education for their children. You appear to agree with that comment.
    3. I believe any French sociologist would agree with my statement that integration of people from the provinces was still a major issue as late as the 1940s(despite a few hundred years of being part of France) and there is still some evidence of the concept of separation. Scotland is close to declaring its independence from England despite being part of it for 400 years. Is this a “joke?” You ignore Belgium which is torn apart into virtually two nations despite being a unified nation for 170 years.
    3, My second point is you are too quick to condemn failure. France needs more time. It is the second generation of immigrants that is the central one in terms of integration.